Seeking Different
Single Mother by Choice (former co-host of The Mocha SMC Podcast) Hera McLeod teams up with her precocious nine year old daughter Estela for the podcast "Seeking Different". The Mom and Kid duo explore what it looks like to navigate the world as a non-traditional family. They discuss hot topics such as donor sibling relationships, family travel, school choice, race relations, and navigating the playground.
Seeking Different
Seeking Different: Season 2, Episode 6: Embracing Diversity - A Conversation on Unique Family Structures
This week we recap on the first week of school and discuss how kid social interactions have changed post pandemic (particularly for kids who were school aged during the height of it). Have you ever considered how remote learning impacted children's social skills? Picture this, a young student, fresh from a year of remote learning, navigating the trials and tribulations of the playground. We travel through this terrain on Seeking Different, delving into the intricacies of making friends in these "post pandemic" times. We examine the pressure kids feel to form friendships quickly upon their return to school and how playtime, a critical component of relationship-building, has changed due to the restrictions imposed by this pandemic.
Now, let's shake it up and zoom in on family structures. Ever thought about the awkwardness a single parent might face in the PTA meetings or the innocent curiosity that comes from a child being raised in a diverse family structure? We face these queries head-on with candid conversations about single-parenting and diverse family structures that break the traditional mold. We share firsthand experiences, like the gaffe of a school principal assuming a random man as a mom's "better half" and a classmate's unique experience of having two moms. We stress the importance of acknowledging and accepting these myriad family structures and discuss how to best navigate conversations about family diversity with children. Join us for this powerful exploration of modern family life.
For hardworking parents seeking side hustles & yearning for the freedom & fulfillment...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Hi, I'm Hera the mom and I'm Estella the kid, and this is Seeking Different. There are times when everyone feels different or left out. As a non-traditional mom and kid family, we're sitting out to explore all the ways that families can be different. This is Seeking Different. Hi, everyone, welcome to Seeking Different.
Speaker 2:Alright, so before we get into it this week, I want to see how did school go.
Speaker 1:School was amazing. The first day was like kind of hard because it was a new school. Everybody was shy. You were still finding your friend. Second day was easier because everybody like they already had a friend. They would actually like kind of include you more because they weren't so like panicked, everybody was panicked. Third day was amazing because there was a girl and I could tell that she really wanted to be my friend. So now we're just friends, I think.
Speaker 2:So what were the best things about your new classroom?
Speaker 1:I like how, on the first day, they let you choose where you sat, because so they had a bunch of group of seats and like, because there is like a seat in the back, but like it's not really in the back because, like I have a seat that I can closely see the screen, I can see the screen very well. Also, I'm right, my back pat, my cubby, is like right behind me but also the bathroom is right behind me now.
Speaker 2:And yeah, your yes.
Speaker 1:The exit is also like the door is right next to me.
Speaker 2:So what you like can run out really quick.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know. I just like to be next to the door exit.
Speaker 2:Okay, so did you have to use cope ahead this week? We talked last week about like the concept of cope ahead, like being prepared for those moments when kids are like a little ratchet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tried to cope ahead, but it wasn't as easy in person. Yeah, like when we were talking about I was like okay sure I got it, yeah, let's do it. And then like when I'm like right in front of them, I'm about to cope ahead, I was like I got like, oh, and then you panic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think it's easier to think about how you're going to react when someone's mean when it's not happening, and then when it's happening it's like oh no, oh no, cope ahead, and then you're like already upset about it. So I totally understand that sometimes it just doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I've been thinking about something a lot lately and I'm wondering what you think about this, stella. So remember, like when COVID was really bad and everybody had to stay inside and like be on the computers, yeah, so you guys went through a couple years of that, like a few years where, like, things were pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:Oh, I remember when we first moved here and like I made it online school. Yes, it was horrible.
Speaker 2:If you remember, back in 2021, you started to refer to the before and what you meant was like when people didn't have to wear masks and you got to like actually go to school. So I'm wondering if you think that, like being remote and having to like do school online for so many years, do you think that it made things harder for kids your age, like socially?
Speaker 1:I think so, because at the school that I was at, I had like a really hard time making some friends and then, like, since I was online, it just made it really harder because I wouldn't like get to have recess with any of those kids and when, and then when I got to school, I actually had like double times harder to make a friend. And, like the friend, I think that the friend that I already made, she eventually turned out not to be that nice.
Speaker 2:So the hard part is that you couldn't go out to recess with these kids, so you were like just learning with them but you didn't really get a chance to like talk to them, play with them, yeah like I remember that I had played.
Speaker 1:I played it with one girl. She said that she would want to be my friend, but then she didn't act like my friend. So I went to another girl. She was at first she was being really nice. Then she didn't act like my friend and it just kept on going on and on and on for like three years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. But I think that's part of the problem. Like, I think that because kids weren't in social situations for so long, when you guys got dumped back into school like nobody knew what to do, and so you weren't the only one, it was like everybody kind of was like what do we do now? And you were out of practice. And then you were also much older when you got dumped back into school, cause, remember, you were talking about how, like at East's age, you can just play with toys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like the way that the little kids learn is to play with the toys and learn, which I actually kind of want to do, because then you have more time to make, to make like a really good friend, because you might be playing with them or you're working with them and then it actually kind of like makes it kind of like indoor recess, we're playing board games and like you're playing with blocks.
Speaker 2:So it's harder for kids your age.
Speaker 1:Because, like when you're older, they start to kind of like link to each other. Then Then like it gets kind of like weird. It's like panic friends. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, you come to school and you're like, ah, I need a friend, I need a friend. And then you realize, maybe like months down the road, that you like don't have anything in common with this person, cause you didn't actually like meet them during play.
Speaker 1:Yeah and so like, but also at this age they don't let so like. I feel like once you're, is he some kindergarten?
Speaker 2:He's in pre-K Okay.
Speaker 1:So like I feel like once you're in kindergarten, like in the middle of kindergarten, first grade, they don't let you play with toys and learn. Like with playing with toys and like they make you like do schoolwork. Or like they make you have partners and like maybe the part you're a partner, you don't have anything in common. Then you try to like make a conversation. Or the other person makes a conversation but like you don't have anything in common, but they like, but they think that you you want to be friends with them, but like really you were just partners during like a certain amount of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's not like you're choosing someone to play with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like also, like you only get well, I think we're going to have three recesses, but last week you only got two and, like the little kids, they have recess all day long.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I think that's probably you're advocating for a play-based model.
Speaker 1:Also like what I? You might not think that it's hilarious, but I think that is hilarious because, like you literally just say like hi, you want to play tag. And then, like after two seconds, like you become best friends. Oh, you mean in pre-k.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, no, it's easy, it's much easier, like I saw it in person.
Speaker 1:They don't understand what's awkward and what's not awkward.
Speaker 2:Well, this weekend, we went to a birthday party for Issa and Stella and I were sitting there like, and this little girl came out to Issa and she's like do you want to play family? And Issa was like sure. And then they like started playing. And I was like that's how it happens in pre-k, like it's just so simple, because they bond over like what kind of play they want to do.
Speaker 1:Well, also like also, what makes it easy is that when you're older kids, when you're older, you start to get more of a person like. You start to like get a really, really, really big personality which makes you like tons of different things, because you learn different things than once and then. So. But with pre-k years they still have a pretty big personality, but still.
Speaker 2:But they're like, not as complex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they don't know as much games, so they usually play the same games over and over again, which makes it which they still think that it's pretty fun.
Speaker 2:That's fair. So when you get older there's just like more options. Because then some kids are like oh, I want to play soccer and like still hate soccer and soccer is my wish nightmare. It's not funny. No, tell everybody what you said. When I asked Stella when we tried soccer out, I was like Stella, why are you running away from the ball?
Speaker 1:And I'm running away from the danger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why would?
Speaker 1:I want to Like in soccer there's always a dangerous person who always knocks everybody over or kicks them in the face of the ball and I'm like why would I run towards the danger and want to break my arm or something? Because I want to be safe? So I'll just say that's not for me and just walk away, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally get it. And the funny thing is, your sister will be like I am the danger.
Speaker 1:It's the danger. She's really good at soccer and I even saw her at school. Me and the other me and some other kids that I played with at my old school, we would sit on the, we would sit on the hill at the field and watch me and watch my sister play soccer, and then everybody she were every single five seconds I would see her kicking the ball into the net.
Speaker 2:I mean ESA. Esa is pretty savage, so I think that makes sense. Okay, so now let's get into the topic of the week how to navigate school and, in particular, new relationships when you're a non-traditional family. So I have some stories from the first week of school that actually really surprised me.
Speaker 1:You want to hear what?
Speaker 2:All right. So that was at the first day no, it wasn't the first day of school. So it was like later in the week they had a coffee for pre-K. So it was like all the pre-K parents and then, like some people from the parents association, I think, the principal was there and so a couple of us were like sitting around or standing around with our little coffee and it was, like, you know, slightly awkward because, like, we don't know each other and we're still having those like awkward moments like kids have.
Speaker 2:So as I was standing there, the principal came up to me and she was like oh hi. And then she like pointed to this random guy I mean, he wasn't random, he was like somebody else's husband. She was like oh, is that your better half? And I was like what?
Speaker 2:And so like, when people say, first of all, when people say better half, and they're referring to your spouse, I think it's like so antiquated because it's like people say, people say like, oh, you're better half, and it's like I actually don't know why people say that. I think it's like to basically be like oh, like you're a better, you're better as a whole. So as an individual, you're not as good as you are with this other person. And so I was already sort of like put off by the fact that she referred to this guy as my better half, because I was like, look, even if this was my husband, he would not be by better half, Like I'm still an individual without this person. But of course this person is not my husband because I'm not married. And so I paused and I tried to fix my face, because you know mommy can't fix her face very well when I'm like irritated.
Speaker 1:I never fix Well. Well do I fix my face?
Speaker 2:I think you might have the same problem mommy has, where, like it's really easy to tell what I'm thinking because I have a hard time fixing my face. So I knew I know that I have a hard time fixing my face. So I was like, okay, here I fix your face. And so I was like, no, I'm a single mom. And I kind of stopped there to like see how people reacted.
Speaker 2:So I was standing with this other dad, the dad that I was standing with. He has a husband, so he also has a non-traditional family. And the thing that surprised me is that immediately when he heard that I was a single mom, he was like, oh my gosh, I don't know how you do it. That must be so hard. And it was like on and on and on and I was thinking to myself I'm like you know, this is, this is like interesting because the school we go to now is more progressive, so you have like more diversity and family structures. But even still, I was like I'm witnessing a moment when, like this person, who also has a non-traditional family, is doing something that is like kind of it's almost like he was making the.
Speaker 2:He was definitely making the assumption that it's hard, or harder having my type of family rather than having his type of family. And so my response was like, well, I guess it depends on how you define hard. Like there's things about my life that I really love. And, to the principal's credit, she took her foot out of her mouth and was like, actually, it must be awesome that you don't have to negotiate with someone else in parenting. And I was like, exactly, I really love that. So, no, it's not to say that like some single parents or single parent it doesn't have. It's like hard things. Of course it does, but I think it's. I think it's odd and it's a little bit grating that people make the assumption that, like you know, two dads, for example, wouldn't have anything about their family structure. That makes it hard, and that I would, just because I'm a single mom. What about you, stella? Did family structure come up at all in your classroom this weekend or this week?
Speaker 1:So, yes, we have been doing so ever since the first day we've been doing an identity chart.
Speaker 2:So explain an identity chart. What's an identity chart?
Speaker 1:Well, it's basically it was really an identity map, but the identity map is a map of yourself, and so you put your name in the middle. Then you have lots of lines coming out that lead to things that make you yourself, and I think that for me, a big thing in the identity map is that like is with family structure, because with family structure all families are different and I like how here at my school right now, they respect different families and who they are and they include it in lots of activities and they don't just put it they don't just put it on one specific family that they think that you are.
Speaker 2:So tell us about what your teacher said about family, like when you guys talked about the identity chart, did he?
Speaker 1:So when we talked about the identity map so he was giving us an example then he said how about let's put family structure down? Then he was like because I bet there's some people in this classroom that have different family structures than other people do. And then he was like maybe one of you had two dads, maybe one dad, two moms, maybe one mom or maybe one mom and one dad, but it depends on you, not other people.
Speaker 2:So did you learn about anybody else in your class with different family structures?
Speaker 1:So one girl, well, she had. So there was one girl and she had two moms and she had a twin in another class. That's what I know about her. Then there was another girl and she said that sometimes she has to move from her mom's house to her dad's house.
Speaker 2:So her parents are divorced, or maybe not divorced, maybe they were never together, but that's a different type of family structure, too Cool. So what did you put on your identity chart, like what are different parts of your identity?
Speaker 1:My favorite was my family structure and my memories, because my memory was about when I first figured out that I don't like soccer, so remember when was it in Seattle or in?
Speaker 2:EC. I don't know. I feel like I've tried so many times with the soccer and just never.
Speaker 1:We were in a yard or somewhere and I and then I had my soccer uniform on, I had cleats on, I had ponytail in my hair and you were like I kicked the soccer ball and then I kicked it and then I ran away and I was like no more soccer ball.
Speaker 2:You were really excited about the outfit. You were like oh, this is a really cool outfit, but you didn't actually want to play soccer, yeah, so how did you describe your family? What did you write down?
Speaker 1:So I said so I said family structure, then under it I said only one mom, then I drew a picture of you and then a picture of you. Then I also said and then right, like close to it, I said siblings, and then under it I said my sister, Isabel, and then I drew a picture of Isabel.
Speaker 2:Oh, awesome, okay. So let's talk about the awkwardness I know we've talked about it in other episodes like what it's like when kids make an assumption about your family and like say things like oh, where's your dad? And a couple of months ago I know we spoke to Melissa from the donor conceived community. You remember talking to Melissa?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so one of the questions that I asked her after the show was like for her to give me some examples of things that, like kids could say if someone asks like, oh, why don't you have a dad? And so she came up with like four different examples, and so we're gonna talk through each example, and then I wanna hear what you think is the best one that you would use out of these four examples. All right, so the first one is this one. You wanna say it, not all people have dads.
Speaker 1:Not all people have dads. I have a biological father that gave me half my DNA, but I don't know him.
Speaker 2:So what about this one? Do you think this is something that would be easy? Or like a little bit too much for a one year old?
Speaker 1:A little too much to say.
Speaker 2:It's like TMI, right? Yeah, do you know what TMI means? No, it means too much information.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, too much information. Okay number two I don't have a dad. My mom used a donor.
Speaker 2:How about this one?
Speaker 1:I don't have a dad. I have a biological father, but I never met him. And then number four not all families have dads.
Speaker 2:I don't okay, so of all the ones which do you think is your favorite, Can I choose?
Speaker 1:to sure, I like number two and number four, because it's like a simple sentence to say and then, like they might understand, so number two is I don't have a dad.
Speaker 2:My mom used to donor. I think that's a good one too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, number four says not all families have dads. I don't.
Speaker 2:I like that one too, so it's like keep it simple.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think sometimes when you get into like too much detail with like biological father and all this, like kids start to have More questions and and like you'll just keep on explaining and explaining and then like they might tell everybody, and then everybody will know that you're the only one who don't have a dad. But here they're not gonna do that.
Speaker 2:That's true because you have a kids that don't have dads in your class.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like this school they allow they like they have lots of kids who have unique families that not all kids know about.
Speaker 2:I am very thankful for the new school because I didn't realize how hard it was for all of us to be in a bubble where people were not Just like a non-diverse bubble, and so I think a lot of times people like assume that Racial diversity is diversity, but it's not really just racial diversity, it's like all types of diversity, and it's nice to be in a school where, like, people have all different types of families, so people aren't like making an assumption like oh, where's the guy that you should be standing with, or like anything like that. So, even though I did have that weird awkward moment at the coffee, I still think it's nice, because After I said no, I'm a single mother by choice and I actually used a donor, you know the the principal wasn't like oh, like what's that? And got all weird. She like corrected it and was like oh, like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that's a type of family too. So I appreciated that. So another thing that I learned this week that was interesting and it and also surprising.
Speaker 2:I Ran into another mom and I won't like give the scenario because I don't want to blow this person's spot, but we were chatting and she at some point the conversation got really awkward and disclosed that she was a single mom. But she was a single mom by chance, so like she was divorced from her son's dad and it was like awkward because she she disclosed that she was a single mom in a part in the conversation that like didn't really fit. And then she got Really weird about it and it was one of those moments when I realized like, oh, like, not all single moms are like loud and proud with their single momness as I am, and I felt bad for her because the way that she explained it was kind of like. She felt bad about it because, like she felt bad that she wasn't with her son's dad, and so it made me think about like how I could be better about Trying to make people feel like it's not weird To to be a single parent.
Speaker 1:I Think well, why? I have one question why do you think that she was like all like, oh, like, what was? What was it like when you were around, when, like she said, he, was like, oh, so, like, why do you think?
Speaker 2:why do I think that she was weird about it? Yeah, I think that she was probably weird about it because it's one of those things where, like, divorce is an Uncomfortable topic for a lot of people. So, like there's single moms by choice and like we didn't have a divorce, right, we just decided to be single moms. And then there's single parents who are single parents because they had a breakup in their family and I think society Still treats divorce as this like taboo topic that people want to talk about. But I think that it's actually really important that we start to not normalize that. But I also think that we should just like Normalize that. That's a different type of family, right.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of like blended families out there, who you know, where the kids do go to two different households, and I think it probably you know, many times it could be because Something really sad happened, like parents broke up. But I think there are also families out there that you know maybe somebody decided that they were gonna co-parent with a friend and they never lived together. So I Felt bad that she felt that being a single mom was something like not to be celebrated. So it was awkward for me because I didn't know what to say. And then I also realized, like I don't, I don't think she knew. Maybe she knew I was a single mom, but I don't actually wear it on my shoulder. So I was like I don't know what to say here. So it was awkward.
Speaker 1:I would probably say the same to you. It would be a problem. I think that it would probably be awkward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you think it would have helped for me to be like oh, I'm a single mom too, or I don't know, like I don't know if that would have helped? Actually, I don't know Because.
Speaker 1:then it would make like a whole entire, like even longer conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it probably wouldn't have helped, because if she felt really weird about it like it would have just drawn it out. So maybe it was best to just be like oh, okay.
Speaker 1:And keep it moving. What?
Speaker 2:did you say? I think that's pretty much what I said. I was like, oh, okay, and then just like kept the conversation going because it didn't feel natural for me to be like, oh, I'm a single mom too. Because I don't know, it just felt weird. All right, well, I am super happy that you had a great week. Do you want to ask Issa how her week went? Yeah, all right, issa. So you started Pre-K this week. How did it go? Good? What was your favorite thing to do in your Pre-K classroom?
Speaker 1:Uh play with my friends.
Speaker 2:What types of things did you play with your friends this week?
Speaker 1:Uh, I played Westmore, I played family.
Speaker 2:Okay, can we? Just what is? How do you play family?
Speaker 1:You know how do you play family?
Speaker 2:No, but like how. Like what are the different roles in family? Like, how are you playing family?
Speaker 1:I play fun Like so what are the people that you do in family Like? Is there a mom, Is there a dad? They're two dads or they're two moms. Are there lots of siblings there was, there was my friends, there was a mom, and then it was Nia's baby, and then it's to pull out puzzles, and then I, and then I said, and then I said I want to make an ice cream shop.
Speaker 2:So you had an ice cream shop.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you were a baby. Yeah, okay, interesting, okay. So how were your teachers?
Speaker 1:Good.
Speaker 2:What were they like?
Speaker 1:They were good.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we, issa, we were talking about identity, and I know you're four, so, like you know, this might be a little bit extra. But if someone asked you to describe your family, what would you say?
Speaker 1:I would say I don't know.
Speaker 2:What kind of family do you have?
Speaker 1:Mommy, Mm-hmm, Stedda Mm-hmm, Grandpa and grandma Mm-hmm, and. And.
Speaker 2:Agenia, agenia, okay.
Speaker 1:And Tia and Soho and.
Speaker 2:So you're just gonna give the whole rundown list of everybody in your village? Okay, I get it. Did you guys talk about your?
Speaker 1:different families.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did. Did you guys talk about your different families this week in pre-K?
Speaker 1:We did, we did, we did, we did, we did.
Speaker 2:Did you talk about different family types in pre-K?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:No, no, did you guys look at your pictures?
Speaker 1:Uh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Did you notice anything about anybody else's picture?
Speaker 1:Uh, no, no, I never said anything.
Speaker 2:All right, well, thanks for joining us, issa Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye, okay, okay, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Seeking Different.
Speaker 2:If you like what you heard, share us with your family and friends.
Speaker 1:Tell us what you'd like to hear on future episodes and share your stories about belonging and family.
Speaker 2:You can connect with us on Instagram at Seeking Different.
Speaker 1:See you next time.
