Seeking Different
Single Mother by Choice (former co-host of The Mocha SMC Podcast) Hera McLeod teams up with her precocious nine year old daughter Estela for the podcast "Seeking Different". The Mom and Kid duo explore what it looks like to navigate the world as a non-traditional family. They discuss hot topics such as donor sibling relationships, family travel, school choice, race relations, and navigating the playground.
Seeking Different
Seeking Different: Season 2, Episode 7: Confronting Discrimination: A Tale of Hair, Friendship, and a Beyonce Concert
What happens when the feeling of belonging is put to the test? You're about to hear the tale of a Beyonce concert, a couple of extra guests, and an unexpected lesson in friendship and values. We laugh, we cringe, and we learn as we recount that night when we had to sit on the floor, shunned by a friend. Through this personal story, we want to make you reflect on fairness, true friendship and the values that define not just our friendships but who we are as people.
Ever felt ‘othered’ because of your hair texture or shade of Brown? Let's navigate the complex issue of race, specifically as it relates to differences in hair texture within the black community. We stitch together a piece of summer camp drama and a tale of historical trauma, offering you a nuanced understanding of what it means to be ‘othered’. Amid these stories and our shared experiences, we also celebrate the joy of the Beyonce concert and the valuable lessons we learned about friendship, inclusivity, and standing up for what's right. Trust us, you don't want to miss our journey!
Hi I'm Hera, the mom, and I'm Estella the kid, and this is Seeking Different. There are times when everyone feels different or left out. As a non-traditional mom and kid family, we're sitting out to explore all the ways that families can be different. This is Seeking Different. Welcome to Seeking Different.
Speaker 2:Okay. So one of the topics that we try to weave in as a theme throughout our podcast is the topic of belonging and, as a mom and kid family, which is non-traditional structure, this part of the family identity can lead us to feel as though we don't belong, and our family structure is definitely one part of our identity, but another aspect of our family is that we have a multiracial family, and I experienced something this week, estella, that actually reminded me a lot of our talks, when we talk about people being nice and what it means to be a friend, and I wanted to tell you about it because in that moment I was like what would I tell Estella about this? And I need to take my own advice.
Speaker 1:So what happened?
Speaker 2:Okay, so you know that mama went to the Beyonce concert this week, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it took you a really long time to find what you were going to wear.
Speaker 2:Yes, it did take me a really long time to find what I was going to wear and I eventually found it really pretty dress.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm really excited that I found silver because, for those of you who don't know, beyonce's birth month is in September and I think it's like the Virgo color. But anyway, everybody was wearing well, not everybody was wearing silver, but a lot of people chose to wear silver, and so I knew that I had to be wearing something completely fantastic. All right, so you ready for the story, mm-hmm. So Tia and I went to Seattle, which is not very close to where we live. It takes like five or six hours via plane, and mommy had planned on only being in Seattle for about 26 hours. One of our friends bought box seats. Do you know what box seats are?
Speaker 1:Like if at a concert you're in a big box, then you have seats.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's basically what it is. So it's basically like a nice room at a concert instead of sitting out like with everybody else, and so how it works is in this particular box, you purchase the box and the box comes with 18 tickets, which is like perfect, because there are 18 seats in the box. Now, if you add people, you can add up to four, but technically each one of those people is going to be another 700 bucks, so you probably won't do that, because it's not going to make it any cheaper for everybody in the box, and then some people wouldn't be able to sit. So we didn't do that. We split it 18 ways. So mama went there, fully expecting to have somewhere to sit, and so when we arrived, we noticed that there were 20 people that were with us, and what I learned is that two of the people who were with us actually had purchased seats in a different part of the concert venue, so technically, they weren't actually allowed to be in the box. They just crashed the box. I don't know, for lack of a better word.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute.
Speaker 2:So like they just like randomly came over and sat, no, somebody who had paid invited them in, but where was it? That kind of sat around like at the end of the conference. I can imagine If I were them and I knew that I hadn't paid for the box, I wouldn't have taken a seat from somebody who did pay for the box Because technically they had seats somewhere else. But that's not what happened. So when Tia and I walked in, I actually put my stuff down at one of the empty seats. Unfortunately, all the good seats had already been taken. But I was like okay, I'm just going to sit down here. So I put my jacket and my shoes and the drink that I was drinking at the seat. I briefly left to go get a bite to eat. When I came back, somebody else was sitting at my seat and had actually drank all of the wine that I had there for myself. What about your stuff? My stuff was just there. The person was just sitting there on top of my stuff. So at this point I was like, well, this is awkward.
Speaker 2:At that point everybody was sitting in the seat except for Tia and I. So Tia turned to her friend and was like hey, we don't have a place to sit. What's up with that Her friend. Instead of going to those two girls who didn't pay to be there or the person who let them in, he was just like yeah, there are 20 of us and only 18 seats. In that moment, I thought to myself what would a good friend do? Now, technically, our friend didn't let the girls in. However, when he noticed that his friends didn't have seats and one of his friends did, he didn't stick out for us. Instead, the entire concert, he and I had to sit on the floor because there was nowhere to sit.
Speaker 1:You didn't even get to have any wine. No I got some wine. I had to get more.
Speaker 2:But I was just I was irritated because it was one of those situations where everybody in that room was being ratchet and mean.
Speaker 1:And at first Wait did you wish that you would sit in the crowd, not there?
Speaker 2:I mean, I didn't necessarily want to be sitting in the crowd, but I definitely wanted to be sitting in a seat that I paid for. I paid to be in a box in a seat and have a seat to watch the concert and I didn't get a seat and so I felt kind of cheated. I felt like my friend cheated me and, yeah, I could have made a big deal about it. I could have been like, hey, you need to move, but at the same time, I wasn't necessarily the host of the box and that wasn't my that. I wasn't like I shouldn't have had to do that.
Speaker 2:And I just felt like I looked around and I felt like this is an example of a situation where people are being mean. The person who was friends with all these people didn't bother to introduce us and was treating us pretty poorly, like did not care that we didn't have a place to sit. And it made me remember when you and I had conversations about like you know how, like if your friend doesn't, if your friend is there, when somebody else is being mean to you, and like doesn't do anything to stick up for you or push back on that person. That is like they're pretty much a part of it. That's how it felt, and so I want to tell you a story, because I know that sometimes it feels like just kids go through those situations, but that happens to adults too. Like that didn't feel good.
Speaker 1:But like was the concert, at least like good Like, did you like Beyonce?
Speaker 2:I had a great time, despite all the ratchet people who were in the box with us. I danced, I sang and T and I had a lot of fun. I just think that it would have been a lot nicer had the people around us been interested in including us and speaking to us and not acting like we were the gum at the bottom of their shoe, because that didn't feel good.
Speaker 1:So like. So, basically, you were, I can feel you, so you paid for a seat. They were 20 people in 18 seats. Well, did you start with 18 people?
Speaker 2:We pay. 18 people pay to be there. And then one girl just brought her friends who paid for her seat somewhere else and just decided they didn't want to sit there and they wanted to come in our box. So it'd be like, imagine you paid for like first class seats on an airplane, right, and like somebody who paid for seats back in like coach next to the bathroom, came and sat in your seats and you were like, wait, you sat in my seat and they're like, well, I paid to be on the airplane and it's like, yeah, but you paid for that seat.
Speaker 2:But it would be even worse because it would be like I didn't even have the choice to go sit in the air seats. You would be like you paid for this really nice seat and you had to like sit on the floor next to the person who stole your seat. My God, yeah, it was not a good feeling and it was. I think the thing that was so crazy to me is that I can't imagine being in a situation where 18 people were sitting in seats, noticing that several people didn't have seats and they did not offer to share their seat.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of like you pay for seats. You sat up, got some wine, some food, then once it came back there were people at the seat. So once you sat on the floor you asked your friend to go do something about it, because he knew that they were there and he didn't do anything about it.
Speaker 2:He didn't do anything. He wasn't willing to cause trouble with the girl who had invited them in. So another thing I've been thinking about is like I've been reading up on this concept called identity negotiation. Have you heard of that before? No, so it's like you have an identity and sometimes there's like lots of parts to your identity.
Speaker 2:We talked about this before with, like the identity chart that you're making a school, but race is a part of your identity and sometimes when you get into a space, sometimes there's a struggle.
Speaker 2:If you're trying to, if you want the people you're around to like you and you know that they won't like you for who you actually are, you have this like self negotiation where it's like, okay, I'm gonna like change part of my identity so that I can make these people like me, but it's gonna be like in conflict with who I really am, and I definitely felt that was going on a little bit, and I think that the thing that is really disappointing me about the situation is that I feel that there was that there were race elements at play and that certain people in the box were discriminating against us and our friend didn't stick up for us because that person was too interested in being friends with the people who are being mean.
Speaker 2:And while I understand the struggle because I think a lot of people have, like most everyone's been in a situation where, like they really want to belong and fit in and maybe this person didn't feel like he was fitting in, but just me personally, I would never I would never treat someone else poorly because I wanted people who were being mean to accept me.
Speaker 1:Ugh, that would make me feel really bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it did.
Speaker 1:I would not like that.
Speaker 2:It didn't feel good but despite all of it, it was an amazing concert because Beyonce is awesome.
Speaker 1:Wait, didn't you say that like at one point? Her daughter danced with her.
Speaker 2:Yes, so her daughter's name is Blue Ivy, and Blue Ivy is also kind of amazing. She is an amazing dancer. I told you the video of her right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So she came out with her mom and I thought it was really cool, because her mom is my age and still looks fantastic and is still an amazing dancer and is also teaching her daughter to dance, Wait.
Speaker 1:So her daughter's name is Blue Ivy.
Speaker 2:Cool, yeah, all right. So this morning, when we sort of started talking about the Beyonce box situation, you brought up a situation that happened at summer camp and I can't remember if we had already talked about it on the podcast but that you felt like you felt was confusing. You weren't sure if it had to do with race or not, but it didn't feel good. Do you want to tell our listeners what it was?
Speaker 1:Okay, so at summer camp we had a pool and if you wanted to get up early then you could take a shower. But if you wanted to take a shower with another person, you had to keep your bathing suit on during the shower.
Speaker 2:Which is completely logical.
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, which is good. And they also have chairs, so like you could put a chair in the shower and just sit down in the shower and talk while you're in the shower, so you can like get warm Then like shower chats.
Speaker 2:So you guys would just like go in the shower and just like sit down and chat, okay.
Speaker 1:And like we would trade whoever gets to sit and whoever gets to go behind the chair, like every five minutes, all right.
Speaker 2:So here you guys are sitting in the shower, my bathing suit's on.
Speaker 1:And then we were having a conversation about hair, because so first one girl she said wow, it's very hard to take care of curly hair. And then the then everybody else said yeah, it is really hard. And then I said yeah, it is kind of hard to take care of curly hair. And then another girl she said wait, but you don't have curly hair. And so I said what do you mean? And she said your hair is straight, I can see. And I was like no, it's not. Have you seen my hair dry? And then she was like your hair is straight. And I was like no, it's not. But then the girl who said the girl who started the hair conversation he, she, she went in front of the girl who said my hair is straight and she said her hair isn't straight, her hair is like mine and does my hair look straight? And then the girl who's creating drama said no, your hair does not look straight, it looks curly. And then so she said well then, how come you're saying her hair looks straight?
Speaker 2:So I think another layer of this is that you guys were all black girls, right?
Speaker 1:Well, except. Another thing was that there was also like one white girl.
Speaker 2:Wait, that wasn't the same day, though, wasn't that like next day?
Speaker 1:No, it was the same day. Oh and like there was one white girl and like, after that whole entire conversation, the white girl, she just stood there and she was the one who had straight hair, but like it was a little bit curly, a little bit straight, it was like wavy, and like she was just standing there going like she was just standing there looking strange and like. Yeah, and then, and then she said, um, and I'm the only white person in here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I don't even know how to make sense of this, but here's my interpretation. So the thing we've talked about this before where, like a lot of times, by racial people, get other Do you know what that means? No, it's like If we're in a group of white people, the white people are like you're not like us, you're other, you're different, and so they will try to do things to like, make us feel different sometimes, especially if, like, it's racism. And also if you're in a group of black people, sometimes they other us too, which I think is exactly what the black girl was doing when she was trying to say that your hair was curly. She was like your hair is not curly like mine, and she was trying to make you other or point you out as different, and that was not okay.
Speaker 1:But also like my hair is curly, but like it's not as tight curls as her. Yeah, but you guys fold up curly hair, yeah, and like my curls are like kind of like loose curls and her curls are like really tight curls, so I guess she doesn't understand the difference in between loose and tight.
Speaker 2:I think also a lot of people, and this is what really bothers me. There's so many things that bothered me about what happened at the concert, but I often think about historical trauma where, like, the black community is so deeply fractured that, like, instead of embracing that they are all colors of blackness and that we can all be black within the black community, sometimes we get so obsessed with like pointing out differences and that was one of those examples where that girl was like pointing out that difference and it's like, just like there's lots of different types of skin colors and different shades within black community, there's also different kinds of hair textures within the black community.
Speaker 2:And, ironically, beyonce has the perfect song about this. She calls cozy. Did you hear about it? Did you hear it?
Speaker 1:in the car. I don't know what you like.
Speaker 2:Where she was like there's this one part where she's like talking about all different shades of blackness and she was like light skin, dark skin, beige, and then she was like and then it's like we're all black, basically Like we all get to be black, even if we're not the same color of brown.
Speaker 1:So I thought that was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:And also Ironic, because T&I were being mistreated in the box and it felt very much like we were being othered and it was kind of like nobody was willing to step up for us and did you?
Speaker 1:try to step up for yourself.
Speaker 2:I did mention several times that we didn't have seats. I didn't want to create more drama because it was already really uncomfortable and it sort of felt like like if I invited you over, we talked about this, like if I invited you over for a party, right, and you didn't know anybody else but me and you walked in and then I ignored you and talked to all the rest of my friends and I didn't even bother to introduce you to my friends. That's how it felt. We got inside that box and our friend did not bother to introduce us to anyone else in that box, and so it was really awkward because it was kind of like okay, people assumed that we knew someone there because we were there, but it was weird, because a box should be a party, like you should have your friends there, everybody should be partying and dancing together.
Speaker 2:But that was definitely not the vibe. Like, there were a couple of people who were just like sitting on their chairs and not really moving, and then everybody was sort of just like talking to themselves, and since T and I had to sit on the floor, there were several people who like shoved past us and was like, ah, can you move out of the way, but there was nowhere for us to sit, so it was just like really awkward and it didn't need to be, and I think that it's really unfortunate that not everybody thinks about being inclusive.
Speaker 1:I think that how I would probably put it like to make kind of like an example, is that we all were in the pool. Then, like the pool was only fit for like for 18 people, Kind of like your party. Then then all of us were in the pool. Then then my friend, she invited two more people to come in who I did not know. Then, when I got out to get a pool floaty, there was no more space for you. Yeah, because her two friends took my space.
Speaker 2:And then your friend said nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then so I couldn't get in the pool anymore. So I asked her, why so? I asked her and her friends, why did you take my seat? And then they just said, well, you got out of the pool, so we just, so we just sat here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, except it would be like you paid for a pool pass and they did, and they stole your stuff. Yeah, I guess that's the thing. I just felt like it was something that someone, like someone legit took my seat and I was like you stole this, like I paid to be here and to have a seat, and here I am sitting on the floor because someone took my seat and my friends I've been sticking up for me when my friend was supposed to be the one that I actually like, coordinated and purchased the box. So it just didn't feel good and I think that you know, as I was in my feelings, I told myself what would I tell Stella if she was in this situation? And when I told myself was Hera? This actually has more to do with them than you Like. That situation showed that these people were deeply wounded, because anybody who had a really good self-esteem and was not a deeply wounded person would have made more of an effort to be kind and and yeah, so once.
Speaker 2:I told myself that I was like you know what they were actually.
Speaker 1:So if they were actually kind, then, like if you said, excuse me, I'm sitting here, would they say I'm sorry you can sit back.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, they would have first not sat down or someone else is sitting, but also like, but like if they did everybody in that place when they noticed that not everybody had a place to sit. What should have been the case is that people should have been giving other people turns to sit down, Like they would get, you know, other people could get up and dance and then let other people rest, Like people didn't have to be sitting for the whole concert. Like I was up dancing for several times. It's just that it's weird to be in a situation like that and like have nobody willing to be decent and share with you. And it was like it was worse than just not having seats.
Speaker 2:I just felt like most of the people in there weren't speaking to us. It felt like we were invisible. It felt like they were just like intentionally trying to ignore the fact that we were even there and it made me feel like why did I get invited to this? Like don't invite me to a party and then ignore me, Like that's just weird. So yeah, but at the end of the day, they get really had more to do with them than us, or I guess it reflected more on their character than anything else. But I know, next time what I will do is I will get my own box and I will fill it with my people so that it's not awkward and so that no one feels left out, and we will only have enough people in there so that everybody has seats.
Speaker 1:At my first concert. Can I be in?
Speaker 2:a box. I will try to make that happen, kid. So the moral of the story is be nice.
Speaker 1:Well, see you next week. Everyone Bye. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Seeking Different.
Speaker 2:If you like what you heard, share us with your family and friends.
Speaker 1:Tell us what you'd like to hear on future episodes and share your stories about belonging and family.
Speaker 2:You can connect with us on Instagram at Seeking Different.
Speaker 1:See you next time.
